Courtesy of Kamal Carter

“A Long Talk About the Uncomfortable Truth,” an organization started by Kyle Williams and Kamal Carter, partners with Yale Athletics every year to educate student-athletes about the importance of activism. The partnership is now entering its second year.

Williams, chief empowerment officer of A Long Talk, founded the program following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis in 2020. Before the Floyd incident, Williams described himself as taking a backseat to activism because everything that occurred was “just the same old stuff.” It was not until his kids experienced their own form of racism that he felt motivated to speak up.

“I always say my kids hired me for the work. I was responding to something that was going on with my son. And it really wasn’t a decision. I just had to get it off my chest,” he said to the News.

Williams then enlisted the help of his best friend of over 30 years, Kamal Carter, now the president of A Long Talk, to form an educational curriculum focused on encouraging anti-racism through their “activation experience.”

The creation of A Long Talk: “The perfect storm”

The entire A Long Talk process takes four hours. First-year student-athletes watch an introductory video and then converse with Williams and Carter, who teach the athletes how to address hateful comments. 

Carter told the News that the creation of A Long Talk helped him release the pent-up anger he felt after the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown.

“I never fought and thought that we could make generational change nationwide,” Carter said. “And so when [Floyd was killed], we were like, we need to do something that’s big enough to impact generations and make this change. And that was the spirit, really. Our friendship, our brotherhood, our life experiences just kind of collided. It was like the perfect storm.”

Williams and Carter then set to work with their purpose: “To eradicate racism and dismantle systemic oppression in America,” according to A Long Talk’s website.

With Williams as the face of the movement — prepped for his impassioned speeches thanks to his training as a technology instructor for teachers and the passion that has “always been inside [him]” — and Carter organizing behind the scenes, A Long Talk got their first gig soon after, despite being initially designed as a one-time Zoom.

One crucial component of the A Long Talk curriculum is the “CPR” technique: Clarify, Probe and Redirect.

Williams encourages the student-athletes in his sessions to clarify what the person who made the remark said, probe them with more questions and then redirect them toward empathy. 

As an acronym, CPR is effective because “addressing racism is an emergency,” much like when someone’s heart ceases to function, Williams often notes in his lectures. 

A Long Talk in collegiate athletics

Head Coach B. J. Dunne of men’s basketball at Gettysburg College in Pennsylvania contacted Williams and Carter and asked them to speak to his athletes. 

“A Long Talk aligns perfectly with our commitment to creating a team culture rooted in respect, dignity, and inclusion, where everyone’s voice is valued,” Dunne wrote to the News. “This program addresses difficult but crucial conversations about race and equity, which resonate with our goal of empowering our student-athletes to be their most authentic selves both on and off the court.”

Dunne wrote to the News that fostering a community free of discrimination and bias is a crucial component to personal and team growth.

Carter explained to the News that after the Gettysburg Men’s Basketball team gig, A Long Talk set up a Zoom with the staff of ESPN and 120 Division 1 basketball coaches, including four national champions. From there, A Long Talk took off. 

Soon enough, A Long Talk found its way to the halls of Yale Athletics. Carter described it as a complete effort from Athletic Director Vicky Chun, who heard the two speak at an Ivy League conference and immediately integrated it into the Athletics Department.

Chun wrote to the News that bringing Williams and Carter to the Yale Athletics Program is part of a larger initiative she promised to her student-athletes that prioritized their mental health and their desire for change.

“[Williams and Carter] blew me away,” Chun wrote to the News. “They were inspiring, informative and taught us how to have meaningful conversations with those who may not only look like you but think the opposite as well. I knew immediately I had to bring them to New Haven.”

She emphasized her goal is to “provide the best tools for our students to become great leaders.”

Carter applauded Chun’s push to educate every member of Yale Athletics across the board, which sets a precedent for other athletic programs nationwide.

“Every single [varsity] team at Yale has gone through A Long Talk,” Carter said. “And not just every single team — it’s generational now. So when the first-year student-athletes come in, and the transfers, and the new hires — anyone in the athletic department — each year we’re working with them with A Long Talk.”

Stine Hojager Nielsen ’27 of Yale women’s crew is one student-athlete who underwent A Long Talk her first year at Yale.

She told the News that although the program can be time-consuming, it is a transformative experience.

“Coming from Denmark, I didn’t really know that much about the racism experienced in America,” she said. “But A Long Talk is one of those tools that allows people to see the perspective of others and learn how to combat hate in every form.”

Libby Peoples ’26, a softball player, told the News she believes A Long Talk provides student-athletes “with skills and techniques to actively eliminate hate from spaces and foster cultures that everyone can feel comfortable and seen in.”

Grace Westmoreland ’28, a first year on the softball team, agreed with Peoples. She told the News that she was grateful to Yale Athletics and A Long Talk, as shutting down offensive language is more complicated than it seems. She said it’s “easier with practice,” which is what A Long Talk teaches. 

“I try to use my CPR training to shut down insensitive language around me,” she said. “It has helped me to better recognize the people I actually want to surround myself with as I adjust to college life.”

Moving forward, A Long Talk continues to grow

A Long Talk works with a 15-year plan in mind, which Williams likens to a culture shift.

He uses the analogy of cigarettes: 15 or so years ago, people smoked indoors, and secondhand smoke was killing people just as much as cigarettes were. Now, people know that if they want to smoke, they need to take it outside. There’s no sign necessary, and no one continually reminds them; it’s just a standard of society. That’s exactly what Williams wants. If someone must say a racist joke, “they need to take that outside.”

“We are fighting a war on ignorance,” Carter said. “Our goal is to push racism outside. It’s in high definition right now. And we want to combat everything: homophobia, antisemitism, Islamophobia, sexism.” 

Carter told the News that he believes many people are “in neutral.” They are not actively racist, but since they believe this is not their fight, they do not get involved. These are the people they hope to “activate.”

Activation is not always easy. As a movement, A Long Talk has faced its fair share of resistance.

“I think change is something that people are resistant to a lot of times,” Williams told the News. “I think there’s some individual resistance. Sometimes it’s not having the courage.”

Legislature impacts A Long Talk’s ability to expand its reach. Divisive concepts laws (DCLs) introduced in many states restrict teachers from discussing issues on sex and race. The laws prevent people like Williams and Carter from coming to schools in the state and facilitating open conversation by threatening to rescind funding from public schools, including universities. 

Alabama is a state with one of these laws. Nonetheless, A Long Talk has worked with both the University of Alabama and Auburn University because, Williams said, “one person made it important enough.”

“It’s moments like these that you realize there are no boundaries to this, other than the individual’s strength,” Williams told the News. “I’m looking forward to having to stand in front of a judge or a court to say, ‘This is why we went there. What’s wrong with me having this conversation in this state?’ … I’m a fighter. So if somebody says I can’t do something, because I can’t get to the state, I’m looking for the person that wants to work with me and make it happen.”

Anyone can begin A Long Talk About The Uncomfortable Truth here.