Courtesy of Mara Lavitt

Judge Thomas Griffith of the United States D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals and former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson spoke at an event in the Sterling Law Building on Tuesday afternoon. 

The discussion was the latest installment in the Crossing Divides Program speaker series. Crossing Divides, which Yale Law School Dean Heather Gerken announced on Oct. 4, 2023, seeks to equip law students with the skills to collaborate with individuals from different political and ideological backgrounds. The spring series of Crossing Divides began on Feb. 20 with former Judge Michael Luttig from the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. Since then, the series has hosted discussions featuring top government officials from opposing ideological sides, all focused on the theme of working across political lines.

“It is foundational to our democracy that we are able to cross divides and have a spirited debate that is respectful and that we are able to have these tough conversations,” said Luke Bronin ’01 LAW ’06, a visiting lecturer at the Law School and a Tsai Leadership Senior Distinguished Fellow in Residence, who moderated the discussion.

Johnson was appointed and later confirmed by the Senate as the fourth secretary of homeland security in 2013 by former President Barack Obama. After leaving office in January 2017, Johnson rejoined the law firm Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison in New York City. Griffith was appointed to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals by former President George Bush ’68 in 2004 and confirmed a year later by the Senate. He retired from the court in 2020 and currently serves as a lecturer on law at Harvard Law School.

At Tuesday’s discussion, Griffith and Johnson delved into their contributions to the American Bar Association’s Task Force for American Democracy, underscoring the importance of working across ideological lines in the government. The task force, which Gerken and Luttig are also members of, comprises politically diverse members from both liberal and conservative backgrounds, all possessing expertise in government, democracy and the rule of law. Gerken, Luttig, Griffith and Johnson are part of a politically diverse task force focused on depoliticizing elections, educating the public on democracy and enhancing the electoral system. 

Johnson initiated the discussion by stressing the importance of working across political divides for effective governance. He highlighted that bipartisanship in government is essential for ensuring the sustainability and durability of legislation, enabling it to withstand changes in administration. Johnson emphasized that simple gestures, like drop-by visits to congressional offices by individuals from opposing parties, play a significant role in bridging partisan gaps. 

“In politics, and at a certain high level of government, working across the divide is essential to get stuff done,” said Johnson. 

Johnson further noted that he tries to speak with both sides of the media, pointing to his experience speaking with both MSNBC and Fox News.

Griffith addressed the constitutional aspect of collaboration across ideological divides, emphasizing the ongoing debate surrounding the interpretation of the Constitution and the necessity of compromise. He underscored the framers’ deliberate design of a system facilitating such dialogue. According to Griffith, endorsing the Constitution entails engaging in respectful disagreement over various matters and willingness to compromise.

To illustrate his point, Johnson touched upon the significance of engaging with individuals who may hold differing views on a given issue. He highlighted how such interactions can strengthen one’s argument or provide new perspectives on the matter at hand.

“I have found I learned more about an issue by talking in an intelligent way to those who may disagree with me on that issue,” he explained.

Griffith explained the importance of courts treating their opponents with respect, highlighting it as a core value in the legal field. He said that lawyers should be leaders in bridging ideological divides and collaborating, a principle he actively champions through his involvement with an ABA task force project aimed at enhancing relations among lawyers from diverse backgrounds.

He noted that many people in Congress from different backgrounds do not speak with each other. He recalled that a member of Congress once told him the only time they saw oppositional colleagues was at Bible study or at the gym. He said that many years ago, members of Congress used to interact with people from different backgrounds and get to know each other outside of the workplace.

Griffith added that he thinks the history of America and the Constitution shows how change can be made when people get to know each other on a personal level.

“The Constitutional Convention shows us the way change happens is in small group dynamics,” Griffith said.  “When you evaluate people in small group settings where you get to know each other, and even if you disagree with the other’s perspective, that’s when you get things done.”

The next installment of the Crossing Divides speaker series is scheduled for April 8 and will feature law professor Omar Dajani LAW ’97 and sociology and anthropology professor Yael Berda.