ROSEN: The conservative side of Yale

I didn’t know much about New York Governor George Pataki before I decided to run with the don’t-ever-miss-an-opportunity-thrown-at-you-by-Yale philosophy and hear him talk.

I knew he was a moderate Republican — a foreign species for me coming from a leftist, urban background — but I figured, why not? So last Tuesday I walked through the rain, completely underdressed for the event in shorts and boots, to meet the governor.

I had never been to a Master’s Tea before, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. With all the descriptions of Yale’s “super liberal” political climate, I figured there was a good chance that people would show up to hassle the governor about his support for Mitt Romney or slashing welfare spending. Instead, Pataki met an audience just as conservative as him, if not slightly more.

People snapped and nodded in response to his statements about the excessive entitlements Americans feel they deserve, eerily reminiscent of Romney’s catastrophic 47 percent remark.

Pataki explained that the average American’s political alliances are somewhere between center and right and that the country is falling apart thanks to our wildly leftist president. He didn’t explain how a right wing population managed to elect such a dangerous radical.

Sitting through the discussion, rolling my eyes, I found myself looking at the rest of the audience. Unlike me, they were mostly immersed in Pataki’s words, looking up to a man who represented much of what I’ve always viewed as just plain wrong. The audience was a perfect representation of the center-right America Pataki had described. And at Yale — the Yale I was constantly told was too left to handle. Conservatives complain about it, liberals revel in it and I, evidently, was misled by it.

The students at the tea seemed to mainly be social liberals with moderate to conservative economic beliefs. They agreed that we should boost our already gargantuan military spending. Some questioned the validity of global warming. Others sung the praises of strict voter ID laws.

Never in my life had I found myself in such a conservative environment.

Obviously the students who would elect to see Pataki speak would, on average, be more conservative than most. But, from the interactions I’ve had with students since arriving to campus, it seems that the typical Yale student isn’t nearly as liberal as many make them out to be.

Given a social issue like gay marriage, Yale students speak in complete support or know not to open their mouths in opposition. But when it comes to issues of the economy, working-class struggles, social programs, dare I say class warfare, students’ views are remarkably shifted to the right.

I have had fellow students explain to me that there is nothing wrong with CEOs profiting at the expense of paying their workers minimum wage with no benefits. I have been told that wealth disparity is just a part of life. Many Yale students figure that, as unfair as the system is, they are on the winning side and therefore don’t want it to change.

As much as people like to espouse the notion that Yale is a liberal institution, it acts as a stepping-stone to the world of big business. It’s a corporation that makes money wherever it can, and much of the student body will, a few years from now, be working for groups that do the same. To someone who comes from a high school where not supporting Occupy was frowned upon, this comes as a bit of culture shock.

I’m glad I went to see Pataki. The talk opened my eyes to a fact about the place where I’m about to spend four years that I hadn’t been ready to accept. Yale isn’t the liberal haven I’m accustomed to, even if some people say it is.

But that might be a good thing. I appreciate being surrounded by diverse views, even if I think some of them are despicable. And I’m glad to share what I have to say with those who think the same way about my views.

In a few years, we’ll find ourselves on opposite sides of the lines out there in the real world, but at least we’ll know how the other side thinks. Maybe that kid you sat next to in section freshman year will be sitting inside the high-rise outside of which you’re protesting. Maybe you will find yourselves representing opposing political parties on a ballot. As much as our paths might differ, we will have spent four years together. That’s a valuable education.

Diana Rosen is a freshman in Pierson College. Contact her at diana.rosen@yale.edu.

Comments

  • Mikelawyr2

    For a Yalie, you sound pretty stupid. You’re accustomed to Yale being a liberal haven? You’ve been there three weeks.

    Perhaps you meant to say that Yale isn’t the liberal haven you expected it to be. But then again, you’ve only been there three weeks.

    If I were you, I’d lay back in seminars for a while. Yalies in general are mind-blowingly articulate and thoughtful. Especially D’porters. Cheers.

    • Goldie08

      *cough* (a-hole) *cough*

    • bcrosby

      Wait, what? She’s saying the she came from a liberal haven and was thus accustomed to that, and that especially given her background, it was a shock to see how illiberal in certain ways Yale is, given its reputation. That’s a perfectly coherent thought. I think you’re being deliberately uncharitable.

  • rmh49

    “Yale isn’t the liberal haven I’m accustomed to, even if some people say it is.”

    Yale is overwhelmingly an incredibly liberal place. Just because the author found out conservatives EXIST on campus (and are thus merely endangered instead of extinct) by attending her first Master’s Tea doesn’t change that fact.

    As a senior and a die-hard moderate-to-liberal Democrat, I would say without hesitation that the liberal intellectual hegemony that exists at Yale is a huge problem. In many of the seminars I’ve taken, cracking jokes about Republicans and conservatives isn’t just acceptable for students and teachers alike to do, it’s par for the course. Conservatives (especially those hailing from South of the Mason-Dixon line) are too often assumed to be too stupid to even begin to realize how wrong they are (this has been said in classes I’ve taken almost verbatim).

    It’s not just that you can’t find conservatives on campus unless you go on an expedition and systematically seek them out at a YPU debate. It’s that ,in so many groups on campus, conservatives are not even respected.

    To me, this is the opposite of vaunted liberal “tolerance” and “open-mindedness.”

    I love Mother Yale, and when I leave her bosom I’m getting a job where I can go wave protest signs and fight for my liberal values, but as her children we need to show more intellectual humility and respect for our fellow students, even the ones who are (gasp) conservative.

    • Dowager

      “To me, this is the opposite of vaunted liberal “tolerance” and “open-mindedness.”

      Your entire response is quite good. You are misguided, however, in the comment above. A liberal is neither tolerant or openminded. That is the great deception. A liberal is ONLY tolerant of likeminded people. You would be the rare exception.

  • RexMottram08

    “As almost all those fashionable split-the-difference fiscally conservative/socially liberal governors from **George Pataki** to California’s pathetically terminated Terminator eventually discover, their social liberalism comes with a hell of a price tag. Ask the Greeks how easy it is for insolvent nations to wean the populace off unaffordable nanny-state lollipops: When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you’re pretty much done for.”

  • The Anti-Yale

    Greed made America Great.

    Ford.

    Carnegie.

    Rockefeller.

    Kennedy.

    Romney.

    Signed,

    Bill and Melinda Gradgrind
    http://gradgrindfoundation.com

  • The Anti-Yale

    OOPSY DAISY ! Wrong url above

    http://gradgrindfoundation.blogspot.com/

  • River_Tam

    > To someone who comes from a high school where not supporting Occupy was frowned upon, this comes as a bit of culture shock.

    I…. don’t even know what to say to this.

    PS: I come from a culture where creating your own Wikipedia page is frowned upon, but what the heck do I know.

  • bcrosby

    To Mikelawyr2 and rmh49, actually, I’m pretty sure that Diana is right on here. To be sure, the choice of the master’s tea as illuminating illustration might have been imperfect, and Yale IS indeed, as Diana admits, a bastion of a certain sort of liberalism – students who want to raise a fuss about premarital sex, abortion, or gay marriage are greeted with eye-rolls or worse, and (nearly!) everybody votes Democrat.

    But let’s not forget that this is also an institution that send around 25% of its graduating class into finance or consulting, or that this is a place where periodic incidents of gross misogyny on campus are responded to in some dialectical sleight-of-hand by attacks on the Yale Women’s Center (the infamous YDN op-ed, anyone?). The sort of politics that Diana seems to be interested in (and the sort of politics that I care about), that of “working-class struggles” or even “class warfare,” comes nowhere close to dominating campus discourse. Call it a divide between liberalism and leftism or between different strands of liberalism (there are solid historical and theoretical arguments for either stance, as far as I’m concerned), but Diana’s right: insofar as Yale is an important part of the (re)production of the capitalist elite, it is a deeply conservative institution.

    • Credo

      What are we defining as ‘conservative’? While I love the idea of splitting up leftism and liberalism, I can’t get myself to take seriously the comment that Yale is a ‘deeply conservative institution’ when in the last Politico poll, only 13% of Yale students identified as ‘Conservative’ or ‘Very Conservative’

      • ldffly

        My deep dark secret: I spent a couple of years at a state university before entering Yale. (I’m only a medium Blue.) In those days, for me, Yale was a breath of fresh air both in terms of politics and respect for Christianity and Judaism. My prior university was a hotbed of left/socialist/Marxist politics. At Yale, the closest thing to a leftist cabal were the students who had a fascination with the Frankfurt School of political philosophy.

        • Credo

          Unless you came from Berkeley, I can’t imagine what public university you could have attended? I’m actually curious if you wouldn’t mind posting (otherwise, its cool)
          And I’m glad to know we are a breath of fresh air compared to ‘Left/socialist/Marxists’ … we are really setting the bar high

          • ldffly

            I’ll just say it was way up in the Northwest. For a couple of reasons, I wasn’t particularly welcome there! LOL Believe me, in the early 70s, you didn’t have to be stuck at Berkeley to be stuck listening to sorority girl/fraternity boy Marxists 24/7. Wisconsin, Reed College (private), Minnesota, Oregon, etc., all fell into the left camp, all full of students who had plenty of cliches to put to work.

            I know. I seem to be setting the bar low. Without writing a very long reply, let me mention a few things. Amity Shlaes and Richard Brookhiser were both students at Yale while I was a student. Robert Bork came back and spent a couple of years at the law school, though no doubt he was an outlier there. Don Kagan was one faculty member who was a very clear anti communist voice. When I was in graduate school (Carter years) I can’t tell you the number of discussions I overheard about the failures of welfare state liberalism, not to make the case for a stronger government role in economy, but to rein it in. Finally, I was a regular reader of “Commentary” from ’72, onward. By the mid ’70s, it had moved from establishment liberalism to conservatism. No ridicule from the Yale students, though I sure got it at the other place when “Commentary” was still in its liberal origins. (I think “Ramparts” was the only respectable journal of opinion at that place.) My dissertation supervisor took to reading “Commentary” on my suggestion after the two of us were talking about how fed up we both were with “The New York Review of Books.” (I can’t recommend today’s “Commentary,” by the way. It’s fallen in many respects.)

            On the matter of religion at my other college, most philosophy faculty never let an opportunity pass to ridicule Christianity and the fools who adhere to it. Not at Yale. There was substantive and well informed discussion of problems within what used to be called philosophical theology. (The Oxford philosopher Brian Leftow was one year behind me in the graduate philosophy program.) Though I was a philosophy student, my understanding of Reformation history and thinking deepened while at Yale. That couldn’t have happened at my other college and I thank Yale for it. Don’t laugh too hard, but I found Yale a very stimulating environment for believers.

            Was Yale conservative heaven? No way. No college campus is. As I said, I found it a breath of fresh air. At Yale, you could get a decent hearing and have an argument. Things were worse elsewhere during the waning days of the New Left.

          • Credo

            I didn’t even pick up on the fact you were a graduate until now
            … and to your ‘No college campus is [conservative]‘, you’ll probably get a kick out of reading about Hillsdale College then
            http://www.rollcall.com/issues/56_108/Conservative-Citadel-Comes-to-Capitol-Hill-Hillsdale-College-204762-1.html

          • ldffly

            There are a few and Hillsdale, of course, is one of them. I went overboard in saying “No college campus is.” My mistake. .

          • Credo

            I understand your point and the generality that no college campus is conservative is fair…

          • Credo

            I just wanna say that you are SO much more pleasant to comment with than practically any one else I’ve ever met on the internet … ever.

            Don’t change, please

      • bcrosby

        I mean conservative in a perhaps slightly idiosyncratic but I think eminently defensible sense: Yale as an institution is deeply invested in maintaining the world social, political, and economic order more-or-less as it is – it is conservative in the sense of benefiting greatly from the maintenance of the status quo. Sure, it might let a few more middle- (and an even fewer number of working-) class kids in on financial aid, but as an employer, real estate developer, investor, and university, Yale, and to a considerable extent, the students it produces, depend upon things remaining more-or-less the way they are.

        • Credo

          Do you even go to Yale? Serious question

          … because I’d love to know what corner of Yale you have to spend time in to see the campus as such. I hear all sides and have a seriously difficult time trying to see Yale as an institution invested in “maintaining the world social, political and economic order”? So I’d love to know what I can do to better understand this truly unique perspective

          • bcrosby

            Yes, I’m an undergrad here – in religious studies, if you care to know.

            I’m not sure to what extent your question is in earnest, but is it really that hard to see? Consider the composition of the Corporation Board of Trustees which governs the university: the CEO of PepsiCo, a senior partner at McKinsey, the CEO of Chanel, the former CEO of J.P. Morgan, the president of Goodyear Capital, the president and CEO of Time Warner, a couple of foundation types: these are all people profoundly invested in the economic status quo, broadly conceived.

            And thus it is no surprise that the university (re)produces the “meritocratic” American elite, taking in high-achieving students primarily from wealthy backgrounds (around half of Yalies are on financial aid, meaning that the other half comes from families making more $250,000 a year, and many of the kids on financial aid are middle-to-upper-middle class), and turning them into the sort of product that that finance and consulting firms snap up in massive numbers.

            Let me put it to you bluntly: how likely would it be that an organization with an endowment as large as Yale’s, with leadership as privileged by the status quo as Yale’s, with massive present prestige and influence on American and world academia, NOT be invested in maintaining the world social, political, and economic order?

          • Credo

            That theory sounds great … until you actually visit Yale

            I’m currently studying abroad at a school with real conservatives which makes me laugh even harder at this comment. Here are some realities to contrast:
            a) Yale actively encourages its students to participate in extracurriculars that expand their minds or benefit their community: Dwight Hall is known WORLD WIDE (I’ve met people here who have heard of it) as a undergraduate student service organization, Yale student body community participation is unprecedented compared to our peers (and even then, our service work is usually directly involved in our community like prison tutoring rather than just raising money for Amnesty International) and the largest extracurricular groups on campus are acapella, theater and the YPU (not exactly the kind of things you’d expect from an institution trying to maintain the order). While on most campuses, the big organizations are pre-law and pre-business organizations, at Yale we have more students who participate in Danceworks than in the Yale college student investment group … please don’t take that for granted because I don’t know of any other elite school (not even Harvard) that can boast the same undergraduate culture

            b) Yale faculty are note-worthy for leading cutting edge research and projects in addressing poverty & inequality (see the Yale symposium http://news.yale.edu/2012/09/18/yale-convenes-multidisciplinary-symposium-inequality), civil rights and democracy abroad (I’m sure you saw this today http://new.livestream.com/accounts/551391/ChubbLectureFall2012), and global health (Here is my master: http://indiaeducationdiary.in/Shownews.asp?newsid=15573) to name a few examples … and those are just what I could drew from the last WEEK!!!!! That’s one single week that shows Yale trying to maintain the ‘social’ ‘political’ and ‘economic’ order of the world … oh wait, I guess not. And again, that is NOT typical of most universities (at least that’s what all of these other students tell me)

            c) Talk with anyone who has spent time in New Haven over the past couple decades (like my roommate) and ask them whether Yale has been helpful or harmful to the city… the school has actively reached out to form a tight relationship with the city, yielding results like the New Haven Promise http://news.yale.edu/2010/11/09/new-haven-promise-program-provide-scholarships-city-youth.

            So to your theoretical question: how likely would an organization with such prestige be in not investing in maintaining the order? VERY LIKELY when you forget that it’s composed of students and faculty (and even administrators in some cases) whose’s lives have been dedicated to making the world a better place … and just because some go to work in finance doesn’t change that reality

            I feel like that is sufficient (and hopefully coherent) as I’m still pretty drunk so I’ll leave it at that

    • rmh49

      Agreed, and well put, as usual.

  • Credo

    So this article sadly doesn’t strike me as insightful or surprising: ‘Yale isn’t that liberal from the perspective of someone with a background where its frowned upon NOT to support Occupy.’ Unlike, some of there commenters (a couple who have been unnecessarily rude) I don’t think the author is stupid, though I’d love to know what is the final point you were trying to get across…

    As a curious aside, while reading this article and some of the subsequent posts, an interesting point caught my attention. Its an observable fact that Yale students who claim to be quite liberal (last I have, 41% self proclaimed Liberal and 18% Very Liberal) for some reason disproportionately find themselves graduating and working for the ‘big businesses’ they supposedly despise.

    This is something I’d love the Yale community to really think about, because that reality only has a couple plausible explanations: a) Yalies are hypocrites and sell-outs b) the saying is true: you’re only liberal until you start making money or c) [my favorite] liberal ideals don’t actually conflict with working on Wall Street or in Big Business.

    So either our student body is shallow, liberalism is shallow, or we should stop conflating ‘making money’ with actually ‘doing wrong.’ Regardless of the answer, all of those are points that would be super interesting to hear discussed around campus

  • The Anti-Yale

    “working for the ‘big businesses’ they supposedly despise.”

    **Not I.
    The highest paid teacher in my school system is at a salary of $ 63,500.**

    • LtwLimulus90

      In Vermont, correct? How does cost of living factor in here, hmm?

    • Credo

      Obviously not everyone does it, but its a joke at Yale that SO many students do work that they seem to decry as wrong while they are undergrads

    • basho

      Rightfully so – the qualifications for a teacher are rather widespread and don’t command as high a salary

  • yellowasp

    Please tell me more about Conservative life at Yale from your incredible experience at a single Master’s tea.

  • sre2012

    Describing Yale as “a corporation that makes money wherever it can” makes you seem silly and ungrateful. Yes, The Yale Corporation is Yale’s highest governing body. However, I guarantee you that there are many many ways that Yale could make more money if it wished. There are many types of corporation and seeing the word “corporation” does not necessarily equate to “maximizing profits above all else.”

    Further, I highly encourage you to attempt to understand where your smart conservative classmates are coming from, instead of rolling your eyes. The best ideas come from relinquishing dogma (assuming all capitalism/profit is necessarily bad etc.) and engaging in real dialogue. Both liberals and conservatives shaped my intellectual development at Yale (though I had to actively seek the conservatives out) and I am a better person for it. Do not just assume that you know what conservatives at Yale think because you have some vague understanding of the Republican party platform– you will be the one that loses out from this viewpoint.

    • LtwLimulus90

      YES

    • River_Tam

      you can’t really reason with people who think that “big business” is necessarily conservative. Microsoft, Google, Comcast, Time Warner, IBM, and Wells Fargo are some of the biggest donors to Obama, and all are undeniably “big businesses”.

      • cincinnatus

        If you think that Obama is a liberal, then you either haven’t been paying attention, or you don’t know what the word means.

        • River_Tam

          No True Liberal would be supported by big business.

          PS: I never used the word “liberal” in my comment at all.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Accordinh to Sperling’s the US average is COL is 100.00 but in VT it is 116.17

  • The Anti-Yale

    PS

    Typos.
    ( My fingers are too big for the droid keyboard.)

  • River_Tam

    > Given a social issue like gay marriage, Yale students speak in complete support or know not to open their mouths in opposition.

    Yeah, they “know not to open their mouths”. Lovely picture of Yale you’re painting.

    • Dowager

      LOL

  • BK12

    This article is stupid.

    • Dowager

      I know you are but what am I?

  • jamesdakrn

    God damn… What has Yale come to?

  • smartypants79

    What a twit. It’s not the liberal haven you expected? Are you finding..diversity? If you were really going to get something out of going to whatever talks are thrown at you, you would have to go with an open mind and not sit there rolling your eyes at the “despicable” things that people say. Instead, you should have been sitting there trying to understand why people see things differently than you do–you don’t have to agree at the end of the day, but you would have a better understanding of the world around you if you could try to put yourself in the mind of your colleagues and see why they feel that way.

    The fact that you don’t think it’s a problem that people just “know to keep their mouth shut” reveals so much of the problem with liberals of today: you just take for granted that people with other opinions are just knuckledragging morons who are wrong.

    As for your comment about a left wing president being elected by the right wing in america, that’s so absurd–right wingers did NOT vote for Obama. Liberals and independents did. Smarten up.

  • McGuire

    Alternate Headlines:
    * “Freshman meets students with different backgrounds, worldviews”
    * “Yale: More conservative than San Francisco”
    * “Student hates others’ opinions, still proud of listening”
    * “Youth hates liberal elites’ big business ties, still voting for Obama”

  • j1234

    If Diana had any aspirations of becoming President or even a politician, she just ruined them with this article. And in her freshman year! Very impressive.

  • silliwin01

    A serious question: does this article reflect more poorly on the author or on the YDN opinion editor responsible for its inclusion in the paper?

    • lev

      The author.

    • sre2012

      The YDN editors definitely share blame — sometimes the freshmen need to be saved from themselves

  • CBKM

    This is embarrassing. I don’t even know where to begin.

    > Many Yale students figure that, as unfair as the system is, they are on the winning side and therefore don’t want it to change.

    Have you talked to a SINGLE Yale conservative who’s said this? I was part of Yale’s conservative subculture my entire time as an undergraduate and no one I knew ever would have said this.

    This seems like a parody someone would write if they knew nothing about politics, philosophy, or Yale, and wanted to make us look bad.

  • Gobias

    Some (sincere) friendly advice, Diana: spend some time with the YPU. Or even in casual conversation with your conservative friends (should you have any) about why they believe what they do. There are many ways and places to facilitate the exchange of ideas, and benefit from the personal growth that attends it. I only mention the YPU insofar as it is the most conspicuous forum for these conversations, and a vibrant one (I was never a full-fledged member myself).

    You set yourself up as an easy target with this piece, but the truth is it is not uncommon for freshmen to enter Yale with homogeneous ideological backgrounds. From your confessions about Occupy and others it sounds like you come from an environment where some of your basic assumptions were not frequently (or at least not hardily) challenged. This puts you in ample company. The great thing about Yale, as I’m sure you know and will continue to see affirmed, is it has some really smart people. If you do not close your eyes to them, you will find intellectual counters who take up the positions you have long considered “just plain wrong” and defend them, not in the manner we are used to seeing in media talking points but with serious thought and rigor. If you allow it, you may find your greatest education takes place outside the classroom as you are challenged to more critically examine what you believe, if only to make your own reasons sounder.

    The even better thing about Yale is it allows such ideological adversaries to become fast friends. I know (and have) thriving friendships that span across the aisle, because the two people understand each other. That doesn’t happen automatically: it is the fruit of initiative, time, and charity. It does not, at least, arise organically from eye-rolling and pressure to suppress contrarian views. You conclude that the time we spend together is valuable, and I agree. Learning is key, especially about those who believe differently. But the education, you’ll see, isn’t enduring four years with the opposition. It’s breaking bread with them.

    I am sure in a few years you will look back on your first days at Yale as all graduating seniors do and be amazed how much you have grown. I know I did. I hope you and all the new freshmen will take advantage during your tenure of this special opportunity to engage with people of all intellectual stripes at their and your best, so that you may, as iron on iron, sharpen and be sharpened by your peers.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Conserve:
    1.
    to prevent injury, decay, waste, or loss of: Conserve your strength for the race.
    2.
    to use or manage (natural resources) wisely; preserve;

    Perfect marriage: Yale’s administration **conserves** its endowment so it can be spent giving its student body the freedom to be **liberal.**

  • BenWilson

    Hrmmmm. Wow. Just. Wow.

  • saispas

    I think we should in fact re-consider what we actually mean by “liberal” or “democratic”. Are these two words just whatever that is in contrast to “conservative”? Or are we actually welcoming voices from all different political views?

    In my opinion, conservatives don’t really have much opportunity to express themselves here at Yale. Yet, isn’t this in a sense un-democratic? un-liberal? Personally, I take liberal and democratic to be the latter definition; however, it seems to be that Yale defines these two terms in the former definition.

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