Town and gown dispute closed streets

photo8
Photo by Alon Harish.

Town and gown met uncomfortably at a busy campus intersection today.

In the fall of 1990, the University entered into a 20-year agreement in which it paid the city $1.1 million and committed to increase its investment in the city in exchange for the closure of portions of High and Wall Streets to general vehicular traffic. Twenty years later, city union leaders want Yale to pay to keep the streets closed.

At a press conference on the corner of Elm and High Streets, union officials clashed with University representatives about whether Yale is fulfilling its financial obligation to New Haven. While representatives of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), which includes five city unions, said the agreement was never meant to be indefinite, Yale officials said it was a one-time payment only subject to a traffic-based review.

“Yale is using hardball corporate tactics on the city’s taxpayers,” said Local 3144 vice president Elaine Braffman, the Ward 28 alderwoman at the time the agreement was signed. “To claim that the city has no right to thoroughly review the agreement is inaccurate, intellectually dishonest and immoral.”

But Braffman was a co-sponsor of amendments that would have converted the deal from a sale to a lease subject to renewal, said Michael Morand ’87 DIV ’93, who at the time represented Ward 1, home to most of the central campus. That effort failed, Morand said, and the deal, including the provision calling for a one-time donation from Yale for the traffic rights, passed the Board of Aldermen 19 to 7.

In a letter to the Board of Aldermen two weeks ago, Morand, who recently left Yale’s Office of New Haven and State Affairs for the Office of Public Affairs and Communications, said the deal came at a time when the city was looking for one-time revenue to help fight its budget woes. Yale was in the process of developing a formula it could use to make annual voluntary payments to the city, but the project closing four blocks of High and Wall Streets was a way to generate immediate revenue for the city’s budget.

“It was an early traffic-calming, pedestrian-friendly development – a precursor for safe streets that are such a high policy priority now,” Morand wrote. After the press conference, Morand added that the city’s Department of Transportation, Traffic and Parking completed a positive review of the closed streets late last year.

Regardless of the original terms of the agreement, however, Matthew Brockman, an AFSCME representative, said Yale and the city should come to a new agreement by which the University leases the streets rather than hold onto them in perpetuity.

One issue of contention between the union and University officials present was symbolic.

According to Braffman, the closure of the streets is an effort by Yale to “retreat behind a fortress” and isolate itself from the New Haven community. But Lauren Zucker, Yale’s Director of New Haven Affairs, said the press conference, which forced student passersby to divert their paths on High Street, was proof enough that the streets are open to the public.

But Ben Crosby ’13, a Pierson sophomore, joined union leaders in criticizing the University’s approach to the streets.

“These streets belong to the people of New Haven,” Crosby said. “I don’t want the institution I care so much about to use its power and influence to get special treatment from the city. The city should not give its streets away for free.”

Still, New Haven reaps more financial rewards from Yale’s presence than any other city does from a university, Morand said.

“Yale is one of only a handful of places that makes any voluntary payment, and it makes the biggest of any university anywhere, even though there are plenty of universities with much larger budgets and student bodies, not to mention plenty in cities with larger problems and issues,” Morand said.

While the University’s payment to the city started at $1.1 million in 1991, it is now $7.8 million, a 54 percent increase from last year’s $5.1 million. Yale committed in November to fund New Haven Promise, which provides college scholarships to New Haven public school students.

Still the city suffers financially from Yale’s presence, because the University takes up a vast amount of land exempt from city property taxes, Braffman said. Using a refrain of Mayor John DeStefano Jr., who often calls union-won benefits and pensions for city employees the “Pac-Man of the budget,” Braffman called Yale’s expansion the “Pac-Man” of the city.

But the non-taxability of hospitals, churches, and universities is a long-standing principle, Morand said. Further, the state compensates the city for its tax-exempt properties through the Payment in Lieu of Taxes (PILOT) program. New Haven received $27.3 million in PILOT money this year.

Taxpayers, including those in New Haven, fund the PILOT program, though, countered Braffman.

“Yale is like the rich friend you bring out to dinner, who when the bill arrives, says his pockets are empty,” Braffman said, adding that Yale’s unwillingness to make a further financial payment for the street closure is particularly disgraceful at a time when the city is in the midst of laying off dozens of employees and making deep cuts to services. “What does it say that in New Haven’s hour of need, Yale is more interested in protecting its loot?”

Though charged words pierced the cold, rainy air, the press conference — attended mainly by union officials, Morand, Zucker, and reporters — was not uncivil. AFSCME spokesman Larry Dorman even posed for a photo with Morand, who said he is generally supportive of AFSCME’s causes but feels a need to correct the record.

“I like high rhetoric,” Morand said. “But not the kind that soars unburdened by facts.”

Morand added that the unions’ fight with DeStefano over benefits, pensions and layoffs is not one in which Yale should be asked to intervene.

A letter to University President Richard Levin urging Yale to convert the street closure agreement to a lease with a “fair rate” has the signatures of 12 alumni, including former Ward 1 Alderman Ben Healy ’04.

Comments

  • wtf

    New Haven would be nothing without Yale. See examples Bridgeport, Conn. and Waterbury, Conn. for examples of post-industrial wastelands. The city is getting greedy: “Yale is one of only a handful of places that makes any voluntary payment, and it makes the biggest of any university anywhere,” what more do you want?

  • cyalie

    Isn’t Yale funding a huge amount of college scholarships for New Haven high school students? Has the city already forgotten this? I’d hardly call Yale the rich friend who never pays out.

  • Sillitar13

    This is absurd. The above commenters already hit some of the major points.

    Not to mention, has New Haven even been honoring the original agreement to close these streets off? I frequently see random unauthorized drivers plowing through the partially closed-off section of Wall St as if it were any regular thoroughfare, and the entire reason for the large potted plants on High St (bookending SML) is to deter drivers from cutting across Cross Campus, which used to happen quite a bit. Also, how the hell is closing two streets off to general vehicular traffic “retreating behind a fortress”? It’s not like Yale built a wall and dug a moat around High and Wall Streets. Nice rhetoric, but meaningless in this case.

    New Haven seems to be becoming a client city, doing nothing but sitting on its ass waiting for the aid checks to fall in its lap and biting the hand that feeds it when it feels slighted. Hell, is Columbia paying NYC for the purported hassle of blocking off 116th St on its campus? If nothing else this speaks volumes to New Haven’s desperation. Yale could be doling out $1 billion a year and New Haven would devour it and demand more.

    And this is coming from someone who supports New Haven’s development. This is not the way to do it. For New Haven to survive in the long term, it must be able to develop some degree of economic self-sufficiency apart from Yale. Obviously it will never happen completely, but Yale and Y-NH cannot be New Haven’s sole industries. Yale has heavily invested in New Haven – it could probably stand to do more. But making Yale throw money at you won’t solve your problems – but that’s the easy thing to yell about, right?

  • Yale12

    Have they HEARD about the New Haven Promise? Yale’s pockets are closed to New Haven? Really? Let’s take a moment and consider what New Haven would be without Yale… we have only to look next door …

  • townieexprof

    ummm…

    you need to research what Yale would be paying in taxes if there were not a very old arcane and bizarre tax agreement extending back before the State of CT existed that allows Yale not to pay taxes on much of its property.

    The fact that: New Haven-Yale=Bridgeport is freshman math.

    The question now is– besides traffic calming, bicycles, pedestrian usage, what makes the most sense NOW for the city and Yale and how should Yale contribute to financing this.

    The math for me, and what should be for Yale is: Yale-safe New Haven=Bridgeport.

    Define safe as traffic, ease of cycling, walking safely at night, shootings, muggins, murders, endless messages from Police CHief Higgins etc etc etc

    Crime fatigue is setting in. Only a matter of time before it hits admissions.

  • Frashizzle

    Yale is protecting its “loot?” YALE’S MONEY BELONGS TO YALE. IT DOESN’T BELONG TO NEW HAVEN… IT DOESN’T!!!! IT’S NOT THE CITY’S TO HAVE!!!!!
    We have students who have worked their WHOLE LIVES in order to gain acceptance to such a prestigious institution… some of our students worked so hard to get into Yale simply because of our financial aid. That the city’s unions (which are, in large part, the reason that the city is facing a budget crisis because of their reluctance to take necessary pay-cuts) would claim that the university SHOULD give more money to New Haven and thus deny Yale’s hardworking, deserving students resources and, perhaps, financial aid opportunities is absolutely ludicrous.
    Oh, and by the way, here are some of the things that Yale gives New Haven:
    1. Jobs
    2. Tourism (all of the city’s tourism… it would have NONE without Yale)
    3. Commerce
    4. MONEY
    5. NEW HAVEN PROMISE
    6. Yale-New Haven (seriously, I’m sorry that we took up taxable land to build one of the best hospitals in the world. I’m sure that the abandoned factory that would otherwise be there would really benefit the community.)

  • commentator

    Total nonsense, given all the money Yale is voluntarily giving to the city, not to mention the fact that it’s the biggest employer around. Yale is the only thing keeping this city from falling apart.

  • The Anti-Yale

    It is in Yale’s best (and self-) interest to do whatever it can to keep the anger of New Haven’s poverty, drugs, and crime at bay.

    The noose of New Haven violence has been inexorably tightening around Yale’s Gothic neck for the last 40 years. Yale is my birthplace: I know of what I speak.

    To view The Two New Havens go to this url and move the video to 4 minutes and 40 seconds:
    http://yalenewhavenclasswarfare.blogspot.com/

  • Sillitar13

    @Keane, you do have a good point. But do you really think Yale must necessarily succumb to all of New Haven’s demands, as it makes them, whatever they may be?

  • The Anti-Yale

    Think of the gas you could save and the air pollution you could diminish if cars were no longer routed four blocks out of the way to accommodate those streets turned into campus malls.

    Besides, it’s rude.

  • yale11

    Really? Does it make sense to have cars driving in front of Sterling? That’s an accident waiting to happen. It’s easy to say students here need to be more careful, but have you seen some New Haven residents driving?

    There goes PK trolling.

  • johnsteinbeck

    @Frashizzle, Sillitar13, et al:
    The unfortunate thing about this debate is that (a) people suddenly find themselves criticizing Yale without a real understanding of the good things that Yale has done, which unfortunately delegitimizes their position; and (b) Yale’s impact on the city is seen as a “contribution” to be added to or withdrawn from, rather than the deep play of dominance, submission, expropriation, and pushback that it is. You may never be convinced that Yale should pay its fair share, but at least read the following articles for more perspective:

    http://www1.geo.ntnu.edu.tw/~moise/Data/Books/Social/08%20part%20of%20theory/land%20and%20labor%20in%20the%20post-industrial%20university%20town%20remaking%20social%20geography.pdf

    http://dissentmagazine.org/online.php?id=448

  • DCHeretic

    New Haven has long had an entitlement attitude regarding Yale. Yale is a private nonprofit institution that educates students and engages in world changing research in multiple fields. It is not a welfare check for New Haven. The university and its students are very generous with the city and have gone above and beyond what is ordinarily expected of an urban university. Yale is neither the blame nor the solution for New Haven’s inner city troubles.

  • The Anti-Yale

    “Yale is neither the blame nor the solution for New Haven’s inner city troubles.”

    A a townie born in Yale /New Haven hospital (then Grace-New Haven) I will gladly speak to this with coomplete assurance of the validity of my perceptions.

    It is true that Yale is not the CAUSE forr New Haven’s inner city troubles.

    It is EQUALLY true that Yale’s palatial architecture, elitist mentality, and patronizing attitude toward New Haven do EXACERBATE inner city and even suburban anger and frustration at the princely entitlement attitudes of the Ivy League cogniscenti. (see http://yalegrad80.blogspot.com)

    PK

    PS

    “There goes PK trolling” I am only “trolling” if in your elitist eyes my position as a native New Havener does not entitle me to speak on your elitist posting board. Your comment is validation of the very snobbish, exclusionary attitude which rubs salt in the wounds of us townies.

  • The Anti-Yale

    “Really? Does it make sense to have cars driving in front of Sterling? That’s an accident waiting to happen.”

    Cars drove in front of Sterling for the first twenty years of my life. What a bunch of babies. Can’t you look both ways before crossing the street?

    Cars cross in front of six college buildings on the Dartmouth/Hanover green, and eight college buildings in Cornell’s College Town in Ithaca.

    Maybe Yale is hoping for squatter’s rights: If we occupy this street for 21 years unopposed, we own it.

    Woodbridge Hall inhales New Haven oxygen and exhales Yale carbon dioxide as if there were no reciprocity in the life support the breathing provides.

    UGH.

    PK

  • Yale12

    PK, how can you simultaneously claim to be a Yale grad (see: yalegrad80.blogspot.com, every single post you make) and identify as a “townie” and call us elitists for being Yale grads? You gotta pick one, buddy.

    Maybe Yale exacerbates the problem in New Haven, but the bottom line is, getting rid of Yale would do the city a lot more harm than good – A LOT. They’re not entitled to anything from us, and they need to stop acting like it.

  • DCHeretic

    Thank goodness for palatial architecture and elitism! I say that as someone whose childhood was marked by poverty and extreme instability, yet still managed to attend Yale via the university’s generous financial aid program. Not every institution in this country needs to be degraded and dumbed down to appease the masses. It’s a sad state of affairs when elitism arising from hard work, ambition, and success becomes a target of contempt.

    Alum 1995

  • penny_lane

    > “But Braffman was a co-sponsor of
    > amendments that would have converted
    > the deal from a sale to a lease
    > subject to renewal, said Michael
    > Morand ’87 DIV ’93, who at the time
    > represented Ward 1, home to most of
    > the central campus. That effort
    > failed, Morand said, and the deal,
    > including the provision calling for a
    > one-time donation from Yale for the
    > traffic rights, passed the Board of
    > Aldermen 19 to 7.”

    Would it have been too hard for the YDN to have confirmed this information by looking at public records, or maybe confirmed the details of the article that passed? If this is the case, it doesn’t sound to me like Yale owes New Haven any more money for blocking off portions of these streets than it has already paid given the original agreement. Wanting Yale to contribute more to help balance the city’s budget seems reasonable, but not when the “request” is made in such a petulant, entitled way, and Yale is right to be wary since New Haven is quite bad at handling its budget.

    In terms of finding a city/university relationship comparable to that of Yale and New Haven, I’ve always been impressed that the Providence/Brown relationship is relatively animosity free (especially compared to what I experienced as an undergrad at Yale). Providence is only slightly larger than New Haven and has a similar economic history (decline after an industrial boom early in the 20th century) as well as a similar employment makeup (over 50% of people are employed by universities or hospitals). However, over the last 20 years Providence has had excellent leadership who have done a lot to revitalize the downtown and combat poverty (crooked though those leaders may have been), allowing Providence residents to breath a little easier than New Haven residents. Moreover, check out how the current Providence mayor treats Brown and other wealthy “non-profits” throughout the city. Not friction free (how could it be?), but not nearly as petulant and dishonest as New Haven acts towards Yale: http://www.browndailyherald.com/taveras-seeks-more-money-from-u-1.2558016

  • rr22

    The city is thinking about this problem all wrong. Closing a street to vehicular traffic does not mean that it is no longer part of the city or part of the community. It’s not walled-off or locked-up like the courtyards of the Yale colleges are. It’s still very accessible to the public, and is part of the public domain of the city – just only to those people who are on foot. But since downtown New Haven has lots of pedestrians, I think this is fine. New Haven should be encouraging more walking and less driving anyway. Think of all the great pedestrianized streets in other cities around the country and world. They are much better for the community and a vibrant urban life than streets where 70% of the land area is given over to car traffic. Honestly, I think we should pedestrianize a lot of Chapel Street, York Street, Temple Street, Crown Street, Broadway, etc. Logistics like delivery access, public transit, emergency services, etc are surmountable. This is not a radical idea – great cities have been doing this for decades.

  • The Anti-Yale

    @ Yale12:

    “You gotta pick one, buddy.”

    I’m the Anti-Yale as in “ANTI”.

    I’ve been a town thorn in Yale’s gown for 40 years

    http://holysmoke2011.blogspot.com

    http://yalegrad80.blogspot.com

    http://theantiyale.blogspot.com

  • yale11

    Out of curiosity, what more could Yale do for New Haven? I’m not saying it can’t do anything, but wonder what PK and others think should be done.

  • The Anti-Yale

    I have been proposing for three years now that Yale give every low-income kid in new Haven a lap-top computer.

    At first I suggested the negroponte but it was pointed out to me that it required wi-fi and that it was declasse.

    So–go for the big bucks. Give every low-income kid in New Haven an iPad and pay for the internet connection. Maintain some kind of identity control so it can be shut off if stolen.

    And so they will take care of them, promise it can be traded in for a newer model every two years.

  • harbinger

    Yale students go into the community, interact with local activist groups and demand more programs and benefits for the have nots. They run for Alderman and put forth fine ideas that the city doesn’t have the resources to implement or pay for. They protest in support of unions, workers groups and the illegal immigrants being sheltered in the city. Isn’t it reasonable to suggest the institution they are priveledged enough to attend back up their civic activism with additional assistance to the city? That’s a major bone of contention in the community. The idea that Yale students use New Haven as a 4 year test bed for ideas to fluff their resume, knowing they’ll never have to worry about the outcome of what they’ve started.
    All that out of the way, I really don’t think a mob of unions should be demanding anything from the university. And if students want to join in the fun, how about both parties agree on concessions for the unions and higher fees for the students that can be donated to the city.

  • dm

    @penny_lane, there are a number of reasons why the Brown-Providence relationship is less strained than the Yale-New Haven one.

    1. Providence was not as involved in urban renewal. New Haven received the most urban renewal money per capita. The godfather of urban renewal was Yale-educated Robert Moses. Urban renewal caused a significant decline in New Haven, but did manage to provide some extra space for the Yale School of Medicine. This decline was in sharp contrast to the forever-wealthy Yale institution.

    2. Yale was, for most of the 20th Century, very antagonistic to the city. It was one thing when, in the 1800s, New Haven was one of the wealthiest towns in the nation. Then, as New Haven got more immigrants and migrants from the South, Yale’s attitude towards its environs shifted. While working at Yale is now a job with relatively good benefits across the board, it was not always so, in any sense of the word. Yale has no great history of respecting workers.

    3. This antagonism is not just based on old fights. Many dislike what University Properties has done on Broadway and Chapel. Family-owned stores were replaced. Inexpensive stores were replaced. The Co-Op, which served Yalies and townies, was turned into a Barnes and Noble because they were willing to pay a higher rent.

    Brown’s location in Providence, as well as its very different history vis a vis the people of Providence, is why it has escaped as much animosity.

  • joey00

    Now now let’s not get nasty, or at least leave some diatribin for me.. Well, if you can give me( desteff) the same deal that we had i will create a new position for a darling of yours, you know my folks and the State folks are working on red light ticket stuff and are always using their intelligence to think of ways to create wealth”
    “Mr. Mayor, we will give you $5 million for High St. ,and close it off behind Old Campus”
    “Okay i’ll take $10 million and throw another street onto the barbie” – But my so and so needs a 34 job”, deal ? deal ! Now let’s all shake sliminess onto each other, we shall do what onto local communities do and rub our tooties onto each other ”
    Hey, was’nt Elaine Branfman an Alder BEFORE Mr John Mayor appointed her to LCI ??
    Isn’t or wasn’t she a new neighbor of Susan Voigts at that time ?

  • Y_2011

    Ah, it’s the palatial architecture that’s the problem. Thanks for letting us know Paul! We shall replace all our buildings with Soviet-inspired complexes post-haste!

  • Yale12

    @ PK – and yet you constantly reference the fact that you’ve gone to Yale, the fact that you graduated from Yale, etc., as some sort of badge that allows you to speak about us, our culture, and our school. If you get to call us all elitists simply because we go to Yale, then why doesn’t that apply to you? Like I said, either you’re a “townie” or you’re “yalegrad80.”

    FYI though, you’re not a “thorn in Yale’s side.” I’d say you’re more like a limp leaf.

    Re laptop computers – how about instead of giving every kid in New Haven a computer, we do one better, and offer every kid with a 3.0 GPA a FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION? Oh wait – we already do that.

    I’m pretty sure if you asked a parent if they’d rather their kid have a crappy laptop or a chance to go to college for free, we all know which one they’d choose.

  • The Anti-Yale

    You asked what I would do. I answered.

    Limp leaf, thorn. It’s all a matter of perspective.

    The Yale scholarship program is for the few.

    My idea is for the many and for the deprived.

    ” badge that allows you to speak about us, our culture, and our school”.

    Read my blog post “Out-trumping Trump”. I’m NOT speaking to you:

    “Yale couldn’t fire me because I was performing the functions of a chaplain and administrator ( as I quixotically defined those roles) without benefit title, pay, or even moral support.

    Nor can they fire me now, their uninvited blogging-mascot, contrarian chaplain, and devilish dean: The Anti-Yale.”

  • The Anti-Yale

    Y-2011

    LOL.

    No one is asking you to replace the “palatial architecture”. They are asking you to simply understand the outsider’s point of view.

    Obviously, you are not interested.

    More proof of my thesis.

  • HighStreet2010

    Townies are frustrated with us because of our architecture, our mentality of elitism, and the way we patronize them by buying them scholarships instead of laptops. Thanks PK (or should I say devilish dean wink wink ;) !!

    Personally, I think $1.1mil is a good amount to have a nice walking mall that the town can enjoy without being hit by cars, but I’ll be sure to check out PKs blog for the real story, awesome links!! I like how there are three of them just so I can get three different perspectives from each of your personas!!

  • The Anti-Yale

    Tedious.

  • harbinger

    Tedious.

    Yes, yes you are.

  • Y_2011

    Did Paul just call someone else tedious? Talk about a lack of self-awareness…

  • smartypants79

    “Still the city suffers financially from Yale’s presence, because the University takes up a vast amount of land exempt from city property taxes, Braffman said.”

    WHAT GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This city would be a festering cess pool if it weren’t for Yale. IT WOULD HAVE NOTHING. Yale is the biggest employer in town. the fact that it has it’s own giant police force to supplement the relatively useless NHPD is one thing that keeps this dump from actually being completely lawless.

    On a separate note, i would hate to try to drive down wall st–driving here is already bad enough because students have this selfish attitude of “i’m walking so i have the right of way.” This is not true, students, if there is a big “do not walk” and a green light for drivers.

  • Frashizzle

    As one of the, literally, almost everyone at Yale who isn’t from New Haven proper, I’d like to express my displeasure at the suggestion that Yale should (SHOULD, mind you, implies moral obligation) spend vast amounts of its resources helping New Haven children.
    Here’s one of the best ways to encourage students to achieve in their courses: create grandiose institution that uses its resources on its students and gives grants to anyone who is qualified and can’t afford to attend. Oh, wait! That’s what Yale does.
    Here are some of the resources that New Haven proper has that some of Yale’s current students (myself included) didn’t have in primary and secondary school: a museum within an hour’s distance, a city library with more than 5,000 books, an arts center, summer learning opportunities (not summer school, rather opportunities for highly achieving students to take classes during the summer), and now, Free College, provided by Yale.
    To suggest that Yale divert resources from students who have worked their whole lives to get here in order to solve a problem that, as any one of many low-income Yalies would tell you, students can solve for HIM OR HER SELF… seems a bit over-the-top.
    Also, as the welfare state that is America clearly display, it’s sometimes (very often) not good to just give people things for free.
    Going through life constantly thinking that someone owes you something is a miserable way to live.

  • The Anti-Yale

    No one is saying that Yale isn’t an asset to New Haven. I am saying from a lifetime of being a NewHaven/Hamden native, that Yale is insensitive to its patronizing rudeness, inlcuding the arrogant pronouncements in these blogs.

    Until you have lived here as a non-member of the Yale community, you really are not in a position to comment. I spent the first 36 years of my life as a non-Yale person.

    I know of what I speak.

    part of Yale’s problem, is that is simply not interested in what the outsider thinks and feels and has ZERO talent at making outsiders feel like insiders.

    Add to this culture gap the problems of drugs, poverty and semi-literacy rampant in society generally (not merely New Haven) and you have a recipe for anger.

    Target? The palaces turned inward with their backs to the community and the princes and princesses fortified inside them.

    PK

    PS

    It is quite possible to be both a Yalie and a townie: For the first 36 years of my life I was a townie. For the next 30 1/2 years i have been a Yalie/townie.

    A degree from Yale (which I tore up on my graduation day, btw) does not nullify one’s birthright and upbringing.

  • Sillitar13

    @PK, what, the degree was just to stick it to Yale as a life-long New Havener? You act as if Yale is New Haven’s sworn arch-enemy, committed to doing nothing but harm to the city as it sucks it dry for its own sake. I wouldn’t deny that in the past, Yale did all it could to ignore New Haven issues and intimidate whoever it needed to get things done. The fact is, it isn’t 1980 anymore. The Yale of 2011 is not the same as the Yale of 1980, just as the New Haven of 2011 is not the same as the New Haven of 1980. To claim otherwise is myopic. Are many of the issues of the 80s still on the table today? Obviously. But Yale is not retreating.

    I do agree with you about the patronizing rudeness, in a sense – there are too many self-righteous philanthropist Yalies who see New Haven as a fallen sainthood that Yale let spiral into the ground, that they, and only they, have the spiritual foresight to uplift. To them too, it is Yale vs. New Haven, and in any such case in their eyes, only Yale can do wrong. This is dangerous and foolish.

  • dm

    @frashizzle-

    As a Yalie who was born at Yale-New Haven Hospital, let me express my “extreme displeasure” with the fact that a) you go to Yale and that b) you have a serious problem with Yale being a good neighbor.

    There is no suggestion that Yale divert financial aid resources to pay for the street. That would not be right, though I’m skeptical that anyone “worked their whole lives” to get to Yale. I remember kindergarten, but I don’t remember college ambitions playing a huge role.

    I am sorry you didn’t have nice things growing up. That doesn’t mean that other people shouldn’t. As a Yale student, you should know what “welfare” is. There is a vast difference between New Haven Promise and welfare. I’m sure you understand what that is. Trying to characterize them as the same thing is foolish and incorrect.

    For more on New Haven issues, read the Monday column on Midnight at Yale, something to suplement Alon Harish’s excellent reporting: http://www.midnightatyale.com/2011/04/grocery-store-that-is-more-than-just.html

  • rr22

    I’m also confused about the details of this article…. where exactly is Wall Street closed to vehicular traffic? It seems that cars drive on it everywhere.

  • dm

    @rr22–Wall is closed between York and College. The only cars allowed on the road are Yale vehicles, though not everyone follows the rule. There is a sign on the corner of College and Wall that explains who can and can’t use it.

  • Sillitar13

    @rr22 – There’s a blue sign on College & Wall saying that only Yale-affiliated vehicles, emergency vehicles, & service vehicles are permitted, or something to that effect. (That’s why the sidewalk extends over Wall St at that intersection.) It’s pretty generally ignored.

  • rr22

    oh, haha, what’s the point if it’s generally ignored? i’ve been here for four years, walked on that street a lot, and it just seemed like any normal city street to me.

  • Sillitar13

    Exactly. People are complaining about an agreement that they aren’t even honoring.

  • TobacXela

    Frashizzle, while I agree with the general statement that Yale isn’t *obligated* to do any of these things, to imply that New Haven students are a) somehow better off than you were growing up and b) going to be able to “pull themselves up by their own bootstraps” without help is ridiculous. Yes, New Haven students have a lot of academic resources. Here’s a few things more things lots of them have, that you didn’t: unsafe neighborhoods with a constant threat of gang violence; parents who are not invested in their education; only two meals a day – the ones they eat at school; to share bedrooms with two or three other siblings and grandparents; emotional and behavioral disorders and schools without the resources or knowledge to treat them.

    I would bet that absolutely ZERO of the low income Yalies here solved their problems “by themselves” – they ALL had help from family, friends, or teachers, and most probably had help from all three. You don’t get to a place like Yale on your own, you just don’t. I know YOU didn’t. You had parents to support you – to encourage you – to care enough about your education to show up at parent/teacher conferences, to remind you to do your homework. Many New Haven students don’t have that, either because their parents don’t have the time or don’t care about their education. What good are all those resources if there’s nobody to tell you how important education is?

    All of this is to say – yes, to imply that Yale is obligated to give New Haven any more money than it already has is ridiculous. But to imply that Yale shouldn’t help New Haven students because they are capable of “doing on their own – like me” is also ridiculous.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Yale isn’t OBLIGATED to do anything: It is perfectly free to continue watching with its nose scraping the sky as the noose of New Haven violence continues to tighten around its Gothic neck. If three murders in as many decdes isn’t enough of a signpost, then nothing can get Yale’s attention.

  • wtf

    I think PK is behind all the murders here; he certainly seems pleased about them.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Uncalled for. You should be ashamed.

  • harbinger

    Three murders in thirty years? Oh the horror! And to think that two of the murders were committed by members of the Yale community! Maybe we should be protecting New Haven from Yale.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Incorrect.
    Of the three murders, two were committed by towns-persons. The third is unsolved, although surrounded by gossip and speculation.

  • Frashizzle

    @dm First, thank you for you initial ad hominem comment. I’m very happy that you don’t think that I should have a right to an opinion at Yale unless it’s of sufficient liberal polarity (I’m hurt… not by the comment but by the thought that there’s someone out there who would write something like that to someone about whom he or she knew nothing). Also, I’m just going to assume that you’ll retract your argument that most lower and middle class Yalies don’t devote a large portion of their lives toward working to get into Yale or at least some such institution… because I’m pretty certain of its falsity.
    Fun aside, you’ve obviously missed the point of my argument. Yale neither “should” nor “should not” help New Haven children. We haven’t an obligation, moral or otherwise, to either help or not help. Yes, New Haven children might need help, but what about other children? What about more needy children in the developing nations from which Yale gets a non trivial amount of its student body? Should we ignore them?
    My point is this: Yale has no obligation to help New Haven children more than it has an obligation to help anyone else in need. To say opposite is to conjecture that Yale owes something specifically to New Haven, that Yale is harming New Haven in some way and should repay it.
    One of the only ways in which Yale is empirically harming New Haven is by taking up otherwise taxable land. Though the harm in this is probably offset by the development that the university has spurred in surrounding areas, Yale also tries to make up for it through voluntary contributions to the city, etc..
    The fact is that Yale is an institution comprised of a diverse array of students. Since that is the case, one cannot claim that Yale “should” do anything for New Haven students that it “should not” or “does not have the obligation” to do for students in poor areas of New York or Los Angeles or poor rural areas.
    Other than the fact that they’re right here (which decreases the logistical hurdles associated with helping them), the distinction that you’re trying to make between New Haveners and everyone else doesn’t exist for Yale. If most, or even a large slice, of our student body came from New Haven, then sure, we would be in some way obligated to help New Haven children more than anyone else. Since that’s not the case, the idea that Yale “should” go out of its way to help New Haven children is unfounded.
    Also, as an aside, I’m not particularly a believer that much of the “help” that is being suggested would help at all. Being given a chance will always help, but do New Haveners (especially with New Haven Promise) not have a chance? If you start to give children things beyond a chance, it might start to teach them the wrong lesson (if you think that giving people things does not teach them to feel entitled, think about all of the things that you have come to expect as an American ). Does it really help anyone if people start feeling entitled to things?

  • Frashizzle

    @dm … still. By the way, as a concrete example of what I’m suggesting, how about Yale voluntarily contribute to the city the amount of property taxes it loses because of the university’s land purchases. We’ll ignore all of the other good things that the university does (jobs, development, a better down town, Yale-New Haven, etc.). Aside from this, let’s create an international scholarship, given to students based on how much they’ve worked (not necessarily how smart they are), for the cost of education at any state school. Granted, this wouldn’t help everyone, but it would be an incentive for everyone, and it would help people in better proportion to Yale’s actual student body.
    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t help anyone (just so you don’t get the wrong idea of my arguments, my economic views are generally extremely liberal); I’m just asking why we should help New Haveners (beyond property taxes). Sure, the emotional relationship between town and gown is complex, but, empirically or morally, why “should” we help New Haveners over helping everyone else?

  • TobacXela

    @Frashizzle – morally, no, there’s no reason we “should” help New Haveners over anybody else. But in terms of what will be best for the university, we definitely have a vested interest in having more New Haven residents graduate from college, especially if they return to New Haven afterwards. If the New Haven Promise works as it should, it will make New Haven a better place. It will bring business, industry, growth, and hope to the city – and Yale definitely has a vested interest in doing just that.

    Beyond that, though, there is something deeply and profoundly disturbing about the fact that, five or six blocks away from our Gothic towers, there are people living in levels of poverty and despair that the vast majority of Yale students, even those like you and me who are technically “low income,” cannot even imagine. This is not to imply any sort of “obligation” on Yale’s part, but it seems silly to turn our attention to some sort of international scholarship fund, like you suggest, when there is SUCH need right outside our doors.

  • dm

    @frashizzle-

    1. My displeasure in you being at Yale stemmed not from my perception that your comment wasn’t liberal enough. Firstly, it was a bit of a play on your “displeasure” at Yale trying to be benevolent to its neighbors. Secondly, and seriously, it was my feeling that you, because of your comments, know very little about the history of New Haven yet feel like pontificating about what Yale should or should not do to it. It is not that you have to be a townie to talk about New Haven. It’s that you have to have some perspective. I don’t agree with PK a lot, but his sentiment about Yale is not out of left field. Yale’s actions are not out of left field either. There have been plenty of actions taken by Yale students and administrators that have hurt this city. If you are a Yale-New Haven scholar, then I have no problem with you shooting your mouth off.

    2. It is in the best interests of Yale to have New Haven be a city on par with Cambridge. The reasons for that are obvious. That is why we have invest a lot.

    3. Your general thesis is: there is no moral imperative to help New Haven and New Haven alone. Things are that bad here. Yale is an international university, not a New Haven one. It shouldn’t focus its help to New Haven alone. I agree with the last point. You should advocate for that, instead of blithering about why should New Haven get help when others don’t. The university has not hurt students through their efforts, and students will continue to benefit from them. You have to work to get a Promise scholarship. Maybe not as hard as you did, but as I’m sure you’ve learned at Yale, life isn’t fair. You’ve got legacies, development money, and athletes in the same class as you, too. So, my issue with you thinking that Yale shouldn’t help New Haven is not that it is a conservative opinion (I think Zelinsky is more credible than you are), it is summed up by the question: Who gets hurt? Who gets helped? Clearly, people have been helped by Yale-funded programs in this community. And we have to start somewhere. I’ll join you in getting Yale to do more to help the rest of the world. Maybe through microcredit or academic exchange.

  • Frashizzle

    @dm
    1. I am pontificating; I never claimed not to be. Do I not have such a right? (I mean, seriously, this a discussion on the forum of a college newspaper… what better stage for pontification is there?)
    — That being said, there are some fairly obvious economic projections that we can make pertaining to non-Yale New Haven, given the fact that we have such well preserved control samples in Connecticut. You can make the argument that, in individual or at least non-continuous cases, Yale has hurt New Haven. However, I think that you would be pressed to find a scholar on the matter who did not think that Yale has provided a net benefit to the city.
    — I’m not “shooting my mouth off,” though I like the expression. I certainly am entitled to an opinion. Sorry if it offends you as a native New Havener, but don’t act like I’ve written anything unnecessarily provocative.
    — Thanks for expanding the ad hominem sentence into a full-blown useless paragraph (really, the whole post smells of it).
    2. and 3. I’ve never claimed that helping New Haven doesn’t help Yale. But, you can’t claim that helping New Haven is morally the best thing that we could do with our wealth. Not acquiring the wealth is probably, overall, the best thing we could have done with the wealth… but whatever. If we help New Haven because the programs benefit the university, then we shouldn’t feel good about ourselves. We should feel… o.k. … about our efforts. We have put the money toward not the most holistically beneficial thing but toward the most beneficial to Yale. That’s fine; we can do that, but we shouldn’t claim that it’s morally the best thing for us to do (and don’t say, like I know that you’ll want to, “well, if we’re helping someone, then why stop.” Every action has an opportunity cost). I’m an ideologue, obviously. I’m claiming that we have no moral obligation to help New Haven as opposed to any other area and that singling-out New Haven is immoral in ways (remember opportunity cost).
    @TobacXela Relative proximity is a bias for which human (emotionally influenced) decisions account. An institution should be rational enough to look past this.

  • dm

    @Frashizzle-

    You are entitled to an opinion. I think yours a pretty poor one.

    Here is a scholar who thinks Yale has been a net negative: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/local/new_haven.html

    I don’t agree with a lot of what he has to say. I don’t think that Yale has been a net negative. Being a net positive doesn’t mean you did no harm. Nuclear power is probably a net positive for the human race.

    Essentially you’re making the utilitarian argument in this case. A poor kid in Africa is the same as a poor kid in America. You talk a big game. Are you working on fixing this proximity bias? Do you do things to try to fix Africa and New Haven equally? If you do, I have no qualms. It is better to do some good somewhere than no good anywhere. That’s what Yale is trying to do. Find a cure for AIDS and solve how people everywhere can overcome the cycle of poverty. Then make this critique.

  • Frashizzle

    @dm
    1. “It’s better to do some good somewhere than no good anywhere.” It’s better to do the most good than to do less than the most good.
    2. We shouldn’t help New Haveners and “a poor kid in Africa” equally because the latter is clearly worse off; we should help him more.
    3. I, obviously, am commenting about morality. I’m not advancing the claim that I do anything personally to sway Yale to make the morally right choice. (In other words, I’ve never claimed to be a moral person).
    4. I actually am working on an international development project this summer… so I guess that you have no qualms with me. I’m doing that instead of volunteer work in New Haven because kids in other countries need it more; therefore, I shouldn’t help New Haven (it’s all about opportunity cost).
    5. Being a net positive actually does mean that you’ve done no net harms (you’ve done harms but made up for them). If we’re in the position of having been a net positive at this point, then there is nothing that we “owe” or “should do” for the city.
    6. I like how you’ve stopped really arguing that we have the obligation to help New Haven and started to attack my arguments on the grounds of just-because and a you-haven’t-done-anything. I can’t respond to untopical points, so just keep making them; they have no weight in this thread.
    7. If we don’t have more obligation to do X than Y but choose to do X rather than Y then we have just made a somewhat immoral decision because we’ve made a groundless decision that unfairly benefits one party.

  • Frashizzle

    @dm
    So, my point is, we can’t base our decisions about what’s moral on what’s practical. If we always let practicality limit our thoughts on morality, then we’ll forget what actual morality is and won’t change our views when the impractical becomes practical. Based on this, I’m claiming that the most morally sound thing for Yale to do would be to not favor New Haven above anywhere else (I’m not claiming that this is practical or beneficial to the university, and I’m not claiming that I am a “morally sound” person). One can’t make the at-least-it-helps-someone argument because every action has an associated opportunity cost. If we give $1 to a New Haven kid, we can’t give that same $1 to someone else.
    — I would think that that clarification should answer most of your questions/counterpoints, other than those that arise from your pro-New Haven bias (and everyone has a bias toward where they’re from, so that’s fine).

  • cdecoro

    I had no idea that Wall Street between College and York was “closed” to non-Yale vehicles. I’ve driven on it, I’ve ordered pizza and the delivery man drove on it, I’ve called a cab and the tax driver drove on it. It is not “closed” in any meaningful sense.

    As for High Street on Cross Campus, that has become a pedestrian walkway. It forms a public plaza. People spend time out there, sitting on benches, doing activities in the quad. It will be very disruptive to have cars driving through there. I don’t care how it was once; it is no longer a throughway for cars, and making it so would be a negative for the campus with little gain. (If you want to get to York, which is the only place you can go on Wall from High, you shouldn’t have turned onto High. Either you were on Chapel, and should have kept going one block to York and turned there, or you were on Elm and went a block too far. And if I recall, High is one-way the other way after Wall, but even if you get to Grove, the only way you can get from there is… York again. The only people that benefit from opening High Street through Cross Campus are out-of-towners that don’t know the roads, not New Haven residents).

  • The Anti-Yale

    “I don’t care how it was once.”

    SQUATTER’S RIGHTS.

  • Kierkagaard07

    Interesting to see this thread shift to moral imperatives to help children. The original story nowhere mentions the typical liberal line “it’s for the children.” In fact, I’m not clear that anyone from the City of New Haven was even at this press conference. Rather, I read that union members have found the public teat has run dry and now look to shake down the next fattest cow in sight, the university.

    Note that it is the Vice President of American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Local 3114 who leads off with the opening shot that “Yale is using hardball corporate tactics on the city’s taxpayers. To claim that the city has no right to thoroughly review the agreement is inaccurate, intellectually dishonest and immoral.” Further we read, “Regardless of the original terms of the agreement, however, Matthew Brockman, an AFSCME representative, said Yale and the city should come to a new agreement by which the University leases the streets rather than hold onto them in perpetuity. ”

    Those original terms are vague here but it appears that Yale purchased the land on which the streets sit, and may be leasing the rights to control traffic on that land. “…amendments that would have converted the deal from a sale to a lease subject to renewal… That effort failed…and the deal, including the provision calling for a one-time donation from Yale for the traffic rights, passed the Board of Aldermen 19 to 7. ”

    The AFSCME has no interest in Yale’s financial contributions to the New Haven community at large. They can’t get their hooks into The New Haven Promise or many other acts of good will that bypass the public coffers. It would be interesting to understand the original terms of the agreement despite Mr. Brockman’s dismissive and desire to re-write contract history.

    The key story line here is Union money grab.

  • joey00

    To Smartypants : The City IS a festering cess pool..And watching the Union drag down the gecko grad students into the mire only gives the cauldron a yellow streak..

  • The Anti-Yale

    A cesspool with a pearl necklace bobbing on top.

  • aidegechang

    To Smartypants : The City IS a festering cess pool..And watching the Union drag down the gecko grad students into the mire only gives the cauldron a yellow streak..
    New era cap : http://www.doestrade.com/

  • sonofmory

    Yale does so much for the City of New Haven it is obscene. In addition to the negotiated donation in lieu of taxes each year and the New Haven Promise, the Athletic Department offers a FREE summer camp to 250 children during the month of July and numerous other opportunities throughout the year. The homebuyer program has encouraged employees to stay within the city, instead of moving out to the suburbs – this alone has enhanced business within the city. What more is the school to do, short of handing out cash and laptops to the residents who are not affiliated with the University?

  • Kierkagaard07

    Perhaps Yale should ask the AFSCME Union local 3114 which program should be canceled, the value of which sent instead to the city as a cash donation in a net zero sum transaction?

  • The Anti-Yale

    “FREE summer camp to 250 children during the month of July”

    I’d love to know the percentages on the demographics. Bet they aren’t inner-city, poverty stricken, single parent kids.

  • sonofmory

    actually Anti-Yale – they are….maybe you should come to the open house on May 23 and see for yourself.

    http://www.yalebulldogs.com/information/community/nysp/index

  • The Anti-Yale

    I’m GLAD to hear it. Yale ought to advertise this in strategic places a bit more: Maybe on the sides of buses.

  • CX

    “FREE summer camp to 250 children during the month of July”

    I’d love to know the percentages on the demographics. Bet they aren’t inner-city, poverty stricken, single parent kids.

    Why would they be? Their parents are probably too strung out on hard drugs to notice the flyers and enroll them.

  • CX

    QUOTE: “part of Yale’s problem, is that is simply not interested in what the outsider thinks and feels and has ZERO talent at making outsiders feel like insiders.

    Add to this culture gap the problems of drugs, poverty and semi-literacy rampant in society generally (not merely New Haven) and you have a recipe for anger.

    Target? The palaces turned inward with their backs to the community and the princes and princesses fortified inside them.”

    I honestly don’t see any problem whatsoever in driving out all the drugged and illiterate “outsiders” and make this a safe and attractive city like it was when it was founded. I for one would be much happier if Yale was about 40 miles west, and I didn’t have to step around the many homeless during the day and fear for my life at night.

    Also, this is not a palace. Anyone can get in–they don’t even have to pay for it if they can’t. So why don’t the outsider children look at Yale and say “wow, I live close to this wonderful university, I feel so motivated to do well at school so that I can be on the inside after high school! Mom, will you enroll me in AP classes next year?”

    And the most interesting thing is that some of them DO do that, and actually New Haven has a much higher admit rate than the rest of the country. So the question isn’t what’s wrong with us, it’s what’s wrong with them.

  • The Anti-Yale

    @ CX

    “I honestly don’t see any problem whatsoever in driving out all the drugged and illiterate “outsiders” and make this a safe and attractive city like it was when it was founded. I for one would be much happier if Yale was about 40 miles west, and I didn’t have to step around the many homeless during the day and fear for my life at night.”

    “At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,” said the gentleman, taking up a pen, “it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.”
    “Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.
    “Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
    “And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”
    “They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, “I wish I could say they were not.”
    “The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge.
    “Both very busy, sir.”
    “Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”

    A Christmas Carol
    Charles Dickens

  • CX

    I don’t understand your point.

    In any case, you’re comparing apples to oranges. Yale has been far too generous to New Haven. It’s as if you think Yale’s stinginess is the only holding the poor masses from living the American dream.

    What difference would it make if we gave every student a computer or an iPad if they use them to play games or text each other instead of using them to learn. And why don’t the ones who DO want to learn just walk into Sterling or Bass Library (or God forbid, the New Haven public library) and do all their learning on those free computers?

    Oh wait, some of them do, just not very many.

    The point is that there are plenty of resources to help New Haven residents get out of poverty (I see you’ve conveniently ignored all the past comments about the Yale-New Haven Promise, which, mind you, could’ve hired an additional 40 professors for us) but they’re just not being used. And until they ARE used, there’s no reason for Yale to throw more money away. When I see lines outside New Haven Reads (a great program) and the public libraries, I’ll reconsider.

    What we see now is what happens when you give a mouse a cookie.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Either make friends with those who would destroy your serene aloofness, or have that serenity disturbed: The path you advocate is a path Yale has trod for the last half century.

  • CX

    Yale HAS tried to make friends, but apparently it’s not giving enough, and I suspect that will be the reaction even if we give 90% of our endowment to the city. So should Yale continue appeasing or realize that its obligation is to Yale students?

    Crime is a problem for law enforcement, not for rich universities to throw money at. By your logic, 9/11 must’ve been America’s chickens coming home to roost, since we contributed to all the poverty and tyranny in the Middle East. (I would not be surprised in the slightest if you actually had that opinion).

  • The Anti-Yale

    WHO exactly has Yale tried to make friends with?

    Certainly not the poor, the disadvanteged, the downtrodden.

    Have you ever tried to get a non-academic position through Yale’s personnel office? Their procedures and employees are condescending, patronizing, and arrogantly aloof, rivalling only the Motor Vehicle Department for the indifference they dish up to the plight of those they “serve”.

    Yale is a CLOSED BOOK. And a musty one at that.

  • CX

    Oh so now Yale is obligated to give everyone in New Haven a job…thought that was a task for the government? And anyway, we already hire too many. I don’t think I’ve ever walked into a dining hall without seeing a huddle of workers chatting away. Not that they’re lazy or anything, there just isn’t that much work to do.

    Yale treats its non-academic staff very very well. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting many of them, and Yale gives them everything from opportunities to buy houses (there was a YDN article on that last semester) to much-higher-than-usual wages. Long-service members also get recognized at events (there was one held just last month). In fact, a librarian has worked here for 50 years and loved every day of it.

    Have the considered the possibility that the poor, disadvantaged and downtrodden you mention probably can’t get a job anywhere else either? And that they were just weren’t good enough to get a job at Yale, or were beaten out by more better-qualified people? Of course not. Since when did Phelps Gate steal and use the Statue of Liberty’s inscription?

    I don’t understand how bad attitude at the personnel office matters in any way at all. If you care about getting a job so little that you’ll walk away intimidated by the personnel office, then maybe that’s indicative of how well you can handle stress and other work-related situations. To update my first sentence, not only do we have to give everyone jobs, now we have to smile while giving it to them? What a world that would be.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Yale doesn’t owe anyone a job. Yale DOES owe everyone courtesy.

    One must be a townie to know the arrogance with which Yale approaches townies, both inadvertently and intentionally—and to recognize that Yale doesn’t particularly CARE how it is perceived.

    As Auntie Mame would put it: Yale is top-drawer.

    That makes all the rest of us . . .

  • The Anti-Yale

    “The fact is, it isn’t 1980 anymore. The Yale of 2011 is not the same as the Yale of 1980, just as the New Haven of 2011 is not the same as the New Haven of 1980.”

    @Sillitar13

    You’re right. The Yale of 2011 is NOT the Yale of 1980. There have been three murders at Yale since 1980. Prior to that there were none—-that I know of.

    PK

  • CX

    How absurd…of course Yale doesn’t owe anyone courtesy.

    Yale IS top-drawer…and the rest of you AREN’T. Why should Yale care about how it’s perceived by townies? What this city needs is gentrification to clean out the riffraff (or at least drive them next-door). I see you conveniently neglected to talk about how you’re blaming crime on the victim instead of on the criminals. Poor New Haven downtrodden! All this persecution and greed from Yale drove them to buy handguns and kill each other did it?

  • The Anti-Yale

    Live in your Old Blue dreamworld. Bubbles pop.

  • harbinger

    @ CX- PK (aka Anti-Yale) has been on a crusade against the university that awarded him a degree for decades. He’s a self appointed watchdog hiding under Yale’s bed, scaring us at bedtime. He worries endlessly about Yale from the safety of Vermont. He relates to New Haven from personal experiences he had decades ago. He’s a professional gadfly, sometimes he’s actually funny. Once you put that all together, you realize it’s sort of pointless to debate any issue regarding Yale.

  • sonofmory

    “Have you ever tried to get a non-academic position through Yale’s personnel office? Their procedures and employees are condescending, patronizing, and arrogantly aloof, rivalling only the Motor Vehicle Department for the indifference they dish up to the plight of those they “serve”.
    Yale is a CLOSED BOOK. And a musty one at that.”

    Oh PK, so the root of your issues comes out – you tried to get a job and Yale denied you – even with your divinity degree. it must have been because you are a townie.

    Well, my partner is a townie who got a non-academic position through Yale’s HR and found the whole process to be wonderful. And that was before we met – so she had no affiliation to me as a Yale alum. She must be the only one who had a positive experience and all the rest were as bad as yours!

    At least now, when I look at this message board, I can finally understand why you chose your moniker!

  • The Anti-Yale

    Sorry to disappoint you.

    I DID get a job with Yale about 40 years ago long before I was admitted there in 1976.

    In fact, my first job after high school, 1963, was as a gofer at the Yale chemistry warehouse (Strathcona?) which was run by a couple of authentic New Haven characters, one of whom was 77, had undyed walnut colored hair, never kept written records, but knew where every piece of glass was located in the thousands of drawers in the warehouse cabinets, and had never taken a sick day in 40 years. He moonlighted nights and weekends as Head Usher at the Shubert Theatre, smoked cigars and swore like a sailor. He and the other guy, ( a mere 72) argued all day long but ran that warehouse with great efficiency and competence.

    My recollections of Yale’s imperious “Human Resources” Department (then called “Personnel Department”) are, shall we say, less than positive.

    PK

  • The Anti-Yale

    “He worries endlessly about Yale from the safety of Vermont”

    I guess since many of my extended family shop in New Haven and walk Yale’s “streets” to this day, with toddlers in arms, I have every right to be concerned.

    I do not, however, WORRY.

    WORRY is self-induced anxiety:Unnecessary and redundant.

    I’m NOT “hiding under Yale’s bed” either.

    I’m right out in the open, barking at the New Haven moon and eating lilacs, like Emily Dickinson.

    PK