Marsh: Cantabs in common

Two Fridays ago, I threw a few clothes into a bag and hit the road to Boston. Like so many other Yalies, I looked forward to the weekend of The Game with a mixture of excitement and trepidation. For the previous year and a half, upperclassmen had pumped me full of horror stories from the last blue-and-white migration. Reading this newspaper in the week leading up to The Game only reinforced the sensational tales. I half expected Harvard to be some sort of dystopian enclave where happiness had been utterly eradicated. What I found was something else entirely.

For me, the weekend began in Chestnut Hill, not Cambridge. I’d driven up to Massachusetts with a couple of good friends and they had made plans to stay at Boston College for the night. It seemed like a brilliant idea at the time; surely, BC could provide the fun that was lacking across town. Indeed, as we rolled through St. Ignatius Gate and into Boston College’s maze of looming Collegiate Gothic edifices, we came across several other Yalies with the same thought on their minds.

But as the night wore on, I began to feel more and more out of place. Our hosts — a suite of 10 outgoing sophomore girls — were nothing but wonderful. Their enthusiastic welcome reminded me of the kind you’d get upon first meeting your younger brother’s new girlfriend: gregarious and eager to please. Yet, I couldn’t help but feel that there was an invisible barrier between us and them. As they zipped up skintight dresses and told colorful stories of grinding on the members of White Panda, we fumbled to find suitable subjects of conversation. They welcomed in bros with backward baseball caps and high-tops; I self-consciously noted that I’d donned boat shoes and a collared shirt for the occasion. We listened to a typical Friday night playlist, looked at a few random pictures of their friends and then skipped out the door.

Thirty minutes later, we were in Cambridge. An occasional acquaintance met me at the parking garage and I followed him back to Dunster House. On the way, we fell into a surprisingly easy conversation that flitted from the corruption plaguing Indian electoral politics to the quirks of Tommy Lee Jones to the history of Harvard-Yale gridiron rivalry. Before I knew it, we were stepping through the door of his suite and into the midst of my first Harvard party.

Dare I say it? It was a blast.

My bag was whisked away, drinks were pressed into my hands from all sides, and within five minutes, I felt like I was amidst family. That night, I played pong with a future financial analyst at Goldman Sachs, danced with a member of the Boston Ballet and joked with a senior from Austria about the European club scene. When we ventured out later that night, we found a lot of parties — and they were all packed.

The next morning, I was dragged from my sleep at 8 a.m. by the melodious strains of Lady Gaga. Then it all began again. Soon enough, I found myself twirling along with a tireless Crimson carnival that paused only for an astonishingly hot breakfast. Despite everything I’d heard, Harvard students were loads of fun and more than hospitable.

So, when it finally came time to chant “Harvard Sucks” later that day, I realized I didn’t actually believe it.

It was basic biology at work — I felt most at home among those whom I was most like. Harvard students, I contend, are the closest thing you will find to Yale students outside of New Haven. They, too, like to think deeply and live voraciously. Even in a party setting, that means more than we’d like to admit.

I’m speaking in generalities, but I believe what I say to be generally true. College transforms us, homogenizes us. Every university has a unique spirit, and as time passes, every student takes some part of it for his own, and shared qualities are reinforced. This explains why so many alumni return to Yale each year — to acknowledge commonalities and to associate with like-minded individuals.

The same qualities that allow alumni to relate to each other allow us to relate to Harvard students. The academic, emotional and social challenges we face are similar, and they call for the same passion and determination. The longer we spend in such company, the more these traits are accentuated. There was a time when I would have been able connect with students in Chestnut Hill as easily as students in Cambridge, but no longer. As our experiences shape us, they determine those to whom we can best relate — a thought which is both invigorating and frightening.

Rory Marsh is a sophomore in Jonathan Edwards College.

Comments

  • Inigo_Montoya

    This is why people hate Yale, Harvard, and the Ivy League.

    Dear non-Yalies and non-Cantabs,

    We don’t all think the way Rory Marsh does. Please believe us that he doesn’t speak for us all.

    Sincerely,

    The rest of Yale and Harvard

  • The Anti-Yale

    There used to be religious, philosophical, and intellectual differences between Yale and Harvard: Trinitarian v. Unitarian; Conservative v. Liberal; Jonathan Edwards (hellfire and brimstone) v. Ralph Waldo Emerson (Transcendentalism , now called New Thought).

    Now, the only differences are kindle v. i-Pad.

  • River Tam

    > It was basic biology at work — I felt most at home among those whom I was most like. Harvard students, I contend, are the closest thing you will find to Yale students outside of New Haven. They, too, like to think deeply and live voraciously.

    Count the cliches!

  • YC_11

    I can’t even begin to count the ways this is obnoxious.

  • jnewsham

    I don’t know what just happened, but somehow Rory has me agreeing with River Tam.

  • River Tam

    Also:

    > But as the night wore on, I began to feel more and more out of place. Our hosts — a suite of 10 outgoing sophomore girls — were nothing but wonderful. Their enthusiastic welcome reminded me of the kind you’d get upon first meeting your younger brother’s new girlfriend: gregarious and eager to please. As they zipped up skintight dresses and told colorful stories of grinding on the members of White Panda, we fumbled to find suitable subjects of conversation. They welcomed in bros with backward baseball caps and high-tops; I self-consciously noted that I’d donned boat shoes and a collared shirt for the occasion. We listened to a typical Friday night playlist, looked at a few random pictures of their friends and then skipped out the door.

    Most awkward paragraph ever? Can we just dwell on this for a moment?

  • cumberland

    Rory, you might want to check out the essay “The Disadvantages of an Elite Education,” written by former Yale professor William Deresiewicz.

  • Nihon

    Actually students at BC and Yale have a lot in common: they both didn’t get into Harvard.

  • Summer_Glau

    If I hear one more Harvard student joke that Yale is a safety school, I’m going to scream. I know a lot of kids at Harvard. None of them got into Yale. None. They only use that joke because they want to prove that they are special, or somehow better than us. It’s just sad.
    Also, while I completely disagree with Roy, I would like to point out that often times we are unfair to Harvard students (apart from those insecure “safety school” spouting dweebs.) I did notice that they put in more of an effort this time to make us feel more at home. Maybe they were insecure about the fact that they failed so miserably at hosting us last time, but whatever the reason, I appreciated it.
    Also, BC is an elite school. If you can’t find things in common with the students there, then I think you need to reexamine your social skills. And that is not to say that someone has to attend an elite school for you to get along well with them. That professor who found it difficult to talk to a plumber…what a moron.
    kthanxbai

  • ya1ie

    “There was a time when I would have been able connect with students in Chestnut Hill as easily as students in Cambridge, but no longer.”

    This is exactly what we should be fighting AGAINST as Yalies. It’s easy to get caught up in own pretentious Ivy League-world — but how are we supposed to go about “Changing the world” if we truly believe, as Rory Marsh seems to, that we’re better than anyone who doesn’t fit into our homogeneous bubble?

  • Yale12

    This is soooo incredibly obnoxious it’s unbelievable. I come from the Midwest, where people automatically associate schools like Yale with elitism, and I defend my fellow students a lot. I tell them we’re not elitist. I promise we don’t think we’re better than them. And then people like Rory Marsh come along announcing that they’re too damn brilliant to even connect to people from a school that’s top-50 instead of top-3, and all that goes out the window. Shouting, hey guys, did you know that the ONLY people that are nearly as brilliant and awesome as us Yalies are Harvardians?

    For the record, I spent the rest of my break at Tufts–which is, *gasp*, only ranked 28th in US News and World Report. Everybody I met there seemed to, as Rory so obnoxiously put it, “like to think deeply and live voraciously,” just like my classmates at Yale. I had no issue connecting with them, intellectually or socially. If you do, then you’re the one with the problem, not them.

    I’ve always though that the difference between Yalies and Harvardians was essentially what the commenter Nihon demonstrates: there is a sense of elitism, entitlement, and superiority that Harvard students I meet seem to espouse that I didn’t think existed among Yalies. Thanks, Rory Marsh, for proving me wrong. You’re right–Yale and Harvard ARE, apparently, the same. But not for the reasons you so arrogantly list.

  • ygrd

    Nice to know pretentious elitism is still alive at Yale. That story about the changes at Mory’s got me worried!

  • aluminterviewer

    To: Summer_Glau

    There are several hundred Harvard freshmen every year who also get into Yale. It doesn’t make them better or worse, but I think we can assume they think as deeply and live as voraciously as the smaller number who got into both but chose New Haven.

  • River Tam

    Also, can we talk about how “live voraciously” doesn’t mean what Rory Marsh thinks it means? (with apologies to Inigo_Montoya)

    Also, @Summer_Glau: nice username.

    Also, at least William Deresiewicz acknowledges the problem: http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/

    > My education taught me to believe that people who didn’t go to an Ivy League or equivalent school weren’t worth talking to, regardless of their class. I was given the unmistakable message that such people were beneath me. We were “the best and the brightest,” as these places love to say, and everyone else was, well, something else: less good, less bright.

  • silliwin01

    I’ll be honest – I dislike a lot of the people here.

  • YC_11

    @River Tam

    live voraciously = eat a lot.

    Those skinny BC bitches.

  • danbor

    This is revolting. Sometimes I think ivy league students have no capacity for self-reflection. It pains me especially to think that writers like Marsh, and his compadres at the Crimson and other “elite” newspapers, invariably end up as the writing staff of the NY Times and the New Republic.

    Good gracious. I just read it again and it’s even more off-putting the second time.

  • The Anti-Yale

    Oh c’mon. You know it’s fun to be a snob.

  • Summer_Glau

    @ aluminterviewer

    I know there are several hundred Harvard students who got into Yale. There are also several hundred Yale kids who got into Harvard. Those who suggest otherwise to the latter are weenies. And even if you got into one and not the other, or neither…SO WHAT? As this article shows, getting into one of these schools doesn’t necessarily make you a smarter or more interesting human being.

  • pablum

    This is perhaps the worst YDN column that I’ve read in my four years at Yale. Wait, no — I’m sure of it: it absolutely *is* the worst.

    Let us all take a moment to relish in the irony (for it is all that we’re left with after reading this) of an opinion piece about Yale and Harvard’s intellectual superiority being so terribly executed, poorly written, shamefully myopic, and downright stupid.

    Judging from this semester’s quality of articles, I propose that we replace the YDN opinion editors with a GMail spam filter; it would surely do a better job of weeding out this intellectually necrotizing filth.

  • Tan

    Can everyone here calm down? From the comments u’d think this piece was Mein Kampf.

    Although why anyone would choose playing pong with a future financial analyst from Goldman Sachs over grinding girls in skintight dresses is beyond me.

  • River Tam

    Rory Marsh wrote a few columns ago:

    > I, for one, believe that the only brotherhood worth having is one founded upon integrity.

    Now he writes:

    > There was a time when I would have been able connect with students in Chestnut Hill as easily as students in Cambridge, but no longer.

    The implication is clear.

  • roflairplane

    The author sounds pretentious enough to go to Harvard. At Yale, we usually take ourselves a little less seriously.

  • sexxy1

    Social skills much? Grow up. Nobody cares if you went to Yale or Harvard or whatever anymore. NOBODY CARES. The only thing that matters is what kind of person you are are and basically calling a bunch of Boston College girls dumb sluts isn’t being a good person. You are a sore on Yale’s new and better egalitarian face.

  • Summer_Glau

    this kid suuucks

  • trum2011

    Rory Marsh is a stand-up guy. Don’t trash him for one article.

  • mrmike527

    I was personally more shocked that he actually had fun during The Game weekend than anything else.

  • River Tam

    > Rory Marsh is a stand-up guy. Don’t trash him for one article.

    Don’t worry – I’m trashing him for at least 3 that he’s written.

  • asdf1234

    cut the guy a little slack. the general point of his article–that yale and harvard, as schools with students of very comparable (i.e., high) intellectual caliber, are more like each other than like most other universities–is true. disagreeing with that sentiment smacks of being just a little too PC. everything that we’ve done to be able to come here corroborates the self-obvious fact that, intellectually, we ARE the best of the best.

    of course, this does not preclude other schools from also having students who fall under the category “best of the best,” although yale and harvard may have more of these students. the only point to take issue with is the implication that somehow, we can’t interact with anyone who isn’t like us, and i think that speaks more to mr. marsh’s social preferences than to anything else.

  • 13

    @trum2011 Yes, Rory Marsh is a good guy, but I had a whole lot more respect for him before, “They, too, like to think deeply and live voraciously.”

  • publicschoolkid

    let’s not forget that all of you are ugly and none of you get laid. and that half of you got in to the ivy-league because of family/school connections. I always get a kick out of hearing about the inevitable harvard undergrad colorado state law student.

  • River Tam

    > cut the guy a little slack. the general point of his article–that yale and harvard, as schools with students of very comparable (i.e., high) intellectual caliber, are more like each other than like most other universities–is true.

    Students at Yale and Harvard are generally students who performed very well in high school academics and “extracurricular activities”.

    This has nothing to do with any non-autistic students’ ability to go to a party that doesn’t involve Indian politics or their respective schools (alums like Tommy Lee Jones, history of the Harvard-Yale rivalry). It’s also pretty pathetic that Mr. Marsh was excited to play beer pong with people because of their previous life achievements (or their Austrian-ness)

  • JE_sux13

    Maybe the place where we can all stop showing off our pretentious “sense of elitism, entitlement, and superiority” is on the YDN comments board…this is an opinions piece that reflects Rory’s opinion on the matter, which, believe it or not, may not reflect your own. In that case, there are better ways of expressing your dissent than spewing highly dramatized, overly harsh tirades about how this article is the worst you’ve read in four years, or how it changed your entire perception on Yalies vs. Cantabs. What makes your opinions so much more valuable that it entitles you to go beyond simple criticism and disagreement and actually cut Rory down as a human being? Isn’t it at least a little hypocritical to impose your own inflated senses of intellectual superiority in such a public forum?

    While I pretty strongly disagree with the piece myself, I think some the comments here reflect more poorly on Yalies’ pretentious know-it-all tendencies than anything that’s in the article. Just because you’ve gotten so comfortable hiding behind your little aliases doesn’t mean sitting in front of your computers and attacking a fellow peer on his merits as a person can be counted as criticism.

    To paraphrase Shakespeare: an a-hole by any other name is still just an a-hole.

  • River Tam

    > Just because you’ve gotten so comfortable hiding behind your little aliases doesn’t mean sitting in front of your computers and attacking a fellow peer on his merits as a person can be counted as criticism.

    Right. It’s not pure criticism. It’s personal too, because the sentiments expressed in the piece are odious to the point of repulsive.

    There’s a difference between arguing your superiority towards someone who expresses a terrible opinion (ie: elitists, bigots, etc) and claiming your superiority over everyone who does not attend Yale or Harvard.

    To summarize: the problem is not that Rory Marsh is judgmental. The problem is that the criteria he judges upon are shallow and wrong-headed.

  • BCbros

    Good sir, get a life. At BC we did fine in high school but we have lives. We, unlike you (dare I say), value nothing more than ten sophomore girls, skin tight dresses, and the friday night pre-game playlist.

    Cheers,
    BC bro with the backwards cap and high-tops

  • mikeNYC

    Good luck finding a job a job Rory. Too bad this comes up when I google your name.

  • YourFriendsFromGainesville2

    You’re a horrible dancer.

    You were a well-respected individual in Gainesville, but you’re entire reputation has been ruined by one disgraceful article. But why would you care because you can’t have conversations with us anyway, right?

    Have a fun time with Roget. Go Rams!

  • YourFriendsFromGainesville2
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